Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community

Don't call him on his bluff to the establishment.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:04:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Huh?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:04:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Right. He actually seemed to adopt Bush's framework that Iran not be allowed to have a nuclear program, not simply a nuclear ARMS program. Evidently, any recognition that Iran has the right under international law to pursue a nuclear program is forbidden in polite American political discourse.

Also, he claimed Iran is the greatest threat to our interests and Israel's interests in the Middle East. I don't know whether this is true or not but it doesn't seem to be in line with Obama's new approach to foreign policy to basically have a list of most wanted and to so categorically put Iran up there at #1. It totally ignores the destabilizing forces of many of our allies in the region (like Israel and Saudia Arabia) as well as glossing over the fact that we have invaded and occupied Iran's neighbors using a violent and destabilizing military force to do so.

But rhetorically I think Obama did well. Not as forceful of a repudiation of Bush and McCain as I would have liked but I suppose that is best left for the nominee's allies to do.

by SFHawkguy on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:20:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And in all this the Palestinians remain the invisible people.

by Quentin on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:30:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They're going to remain invisible until we can get some real change in Washington. Send the lobbyists packing and open the doors to citizen involvement, like Obama's promising to do, and you've got the opportunity to change the narrative.

Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?

by Egarwaen on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:42:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They're not completely invisible in this Iran is evil, Hamas is evil, one upmanship game of tough guy Israel ass kissing he's playing with the republicans. Notice how he slipped in the bit about Palestinians not being worthy of electing their own leaders. In other war drum beating words, Hamas=terrorist, meaning Palestinians=terrorists for electing Hamas.

Meet the knew boss...same as the old boss.

"green grass and high tides forever"

by supersoling (colorsplash62@optonline.net) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 10:45:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Drew,

Let the man become elected, K?

by Cee on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:42:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I want the guy to be elected as much as anybody. I just don't want to forfeit that fight with the Reps. I know it's a tough position that he'd get hit by the press for, but he'd win the argument.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 05:02:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Strikes Back (4.00 / 2)

I was at the Town Hall in Watertown today. I thought Obama spoke well overall. Of course he's going to choose his words carefully in this situation. I wasn't surprised that he had notes for the first portion of the town hall.

The Q&A allowed Obama to respond freestyle, and I think he did a good job answering the questions. Most of the questions dealt with rising gas costs, education, economic issues for farmers, and issues related to working moms and equal pay.

It was really fun to see so many democrats gathered in public - often a rarity in South Dakota. There were about 2,100 people packed into the Coddington County Municipal Complex/glorified cow barn.

I also went to the rally in Sioux Falls tonight - just got back. That was a very different experience (more energy from the crowd, by far - over 7,000) and no script.

by conglomerNation (conglomernationNOSPAM (at) gmail.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 11:32:47 PM EST

Thanks for the eyewitness account! I caught most of it live streaming while I was at work. How long were folks waiting in line at both events? Just curious.

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Sat May 17th, 2008 at 09:23:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

In Watertown, people started lining up at 5:30 a.m. (doors opened at 9). We arrived a little before 9 and had to wait maybe 30 minutes before we got in - the security check was very efficient.

In Sioux Falls, there were over 1500 people in line by 4:30 (when we arrived). We got into the building by about 5:15. The crowd was great and very loud :) There was one Clinton supporter with a sign a few rows behind us who was, um, an interesting fellow. Obama addressed him directly and took that opportunity to talk about unity. I have some pics and video I will post later today if anyone is interested (we just moved and I'm still trying to find all of my camera cords, etc. LOL).

by conglomerNation (conglomernationNOSPAM (at) gmail.com) on Sat May 17th, 2008 at 11:55:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It is amazing. (none / 0)

It's amazing that this guy who's touted as an "orator" can't speak without a script.

Watch it again. And listen to the halting delivery. He's reading.

I want a leader who can look me in the eye and tell me what he thinks without reading a prepared text. This is why Obama did poorly in the debates and why I worry about his ability to communicate with world leaders. Is he gonna bring a speechwriter to meetings with heads-of-state?

by Ed J on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 03:37:11 PM EST

Tell me... (none / 1)

When was the last time we had a president who could give a speech without prepared text? I'm 35 and I know for a fact we haven't had one in my lifetime. Now I'm interested in finding out who was the last president who gave speeches without written text?

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 03:46:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My point exactly. (none / 1)

Obama's just another politician.

by Ed J on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:03:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My point exactly. (none / 0)

You WOULD say that.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:04:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My point exactly. (none / 0)

noookelar, you prefer that?

we all are politicians.... every day.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:20:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Of course he's a politician (none / 0)

Is he supposed to be something else? What exactly where you expecting?

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 05:22:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What was I expecting? (none / 1)

"Change".

by Ed J on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 07:23:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah (none / 0)

You're either naive or haven't been paying attention. More likely though, you're just being an ass for the sake of being an ass.

Ass usual.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 07:39:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Eloquent. n/t (none / 1)

by Ed J on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 07:55:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks (none / 0)

But not really.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 08:16:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell me... (none / 0)

Your question intrigued me so I did a google search and found this
I would like to see them give speeches without text at least on some occasions.

The Power of Speech
by Lory Hough and Aine Cryts
"Hillary Rodham Clinton also has a knack for the personal, says Laura Schiller, one of her former speechwriters.
“One of the reasons, ironically, that all of us loved working for her was that she didn’t need speechwriting. She had such a good sense of what she wanted to say,” Schiller says. “We were there to help her, but you knew she’d be fine on her own.”
Like the first lady, Schiller says that President Clinton “could probably say it better off the top of his head than anyone could write it. He’s a brilliant orator who has a way of taking words off of the page and connecting with an audience. Any audience. There aren’t many people who can connect like Bill Clinton.”
Likened to a “jazz improviser” who “riffs all over the place,” Clinton is famous for his sermonlike speeches. “A pulpit in a black church brings out the best in Clinton,” wrote Nixon speechwriter William Safire in the New York Times.
Politics brought out the best in John Kennedy, whose “Ask Not” speech galvanized a generation to go into public service. Ted Sorensen IOP 2003 served as Kennedy’s chief counsel. Aside from set occasions like the State of the Union or the Democratic Convention, he says that Kennedy usually ad-libbed entire speeches, especially on the campaign trail.
“He was a very articulate man,” Sorensen says, adding, “I’m proud of the role that I played in many of his speeches, but President Kennedy authored all of them.”

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:17:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell me... (none / 0)

That's cool. I've always been impressed in debates how easily she can talk about any subject.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 05:32:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tell me... (none / 0)

A good speechwriter will always say that their principal/client/boss doesn't need one. If I ever read about a speechwriter talk about how brilliant s/he is, I'd slap them. You're not supposed to bring attention to yourself.

That said, one should be able to speak extemporaneously, too. Sometimes, events dictate it, like RFK announcing Dr. King's assassination in Indiana. It's brilliant.

I'll tell you a book I just cannot wait to get my hands on--Ted Sorensen's Counselor: A Life at the Edge of History. That should be a good one.

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 06:20:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's probably because he's more than twice the speaker of any of his opponents. That or the fact that he's demonstrably moved millions of people with his words and delivery. His delivery may not work for you, but quite obviously yours is the minority opinion on that one.

Kelly McCullough - author of WebMage, Cybermancy, and CodeSpell - ACE (Penguin)

by KMc (http://www.kellymccullough.com/mail.html) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 03:52:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Boo, just remember that I called it way back when.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:06:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um... yeah.
Presidents, and a whole variety of other public figures, use notes for their speeches all the time: that's why they're called "prepared remarks".

Although many presidents write their own speeches in full or in part, most have speechwriters. Bill Clinton employed Ted Widmer (who used to rock with the Upper Crust before going to DC.

I want a leader who can look me in the eye and tell me what he thinks without reading a prepared text.

Umm, Ed? Have you ever hear of the tele-prompter?

Brendan Calling John Mccain

by brendan on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:08:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

People read speeches all the time. And your point would be...what?

This was a town hall Q&A, where he looked people straight in the eye answered their questions directly.

Again, your point would be...what?

Is he gonna bring a speechwriter to meetings with heads-of-state? This is concern troll territory. Barack Obama is an educated man who actually earned his degrees, unlike others who had daddy pay for them. And I'll remind you that he put together a campaign from scratch as opposed to relying on a 15 year old machine to do the hard work required. And said campaign has out-organized, out-fundraised and just plain out-worked the others.

So while your concern is touching, I think President Obama will manage just fine.

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:12:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is amazing. (none / 1)

The concern trolls seem to be out in force today. Perhaps it's the weather?

Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?

by Egarwaen on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:23:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Must be the rain.

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 06:22:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Questioning groupthink. So bad, bad, baaaad.

"green grass and high tides forever"

by supersoling (colorsplash62@optonline.net) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 10:51:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I want a leader that thinks carefully about his words and doesn't just go spouting off like McCain did yesterday. Or when he spouted off about "bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" which fulfilled your requirement of being straight-from-the-heart but was certainly not a diplomatic or mature statement for such a man of such importance to make. Nor was it good when Hillary spouted off about "annihilating" the Persian people. No. We do not need to choose the next President based on whether he or she will utter the basest of emotion without thought.

I think it's entirely appropriate to choose words carefully when the Democratic nominee is talking about such a subject as America's #1 enemy and the possibility of waging yet more war. The last thing we need is all four of our America's most well-known leaders spouting off about "annihilating" Iran, or making a joke about bombing them, or calling them the axis of evil. I guess Obama is considered the "dove" because he is only calling Iran #1 threat to world peace.

But at least Obama thought about his statements a little bit more. I'll give him that bit of credit.

by SFHawkguy on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:37:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is amazing. (none / 1)

Right E.J. I want original lines from Clinton like "Change You Can Xerox."

by Cee on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:46:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Taking notes for what? (none / 0)

Neither Gore nor Kerry is ever running for the presidency again. They're more likely kicking themselves than taking notes!

by The Caped Composer on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 03:37:42 PM EST

That was a beautiful speech!
He's knocking them down in such a sweet and polite way.
Very effective!

John McCain - Less Jobs More War

by ask on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 03:44:16 PM EST

Exactly.

This is why WE. ARE. GOING. TO. WIN.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:03:07 PM EST

Oh, but I loved it when Obama said that McSame "embraced" Shrub's policies.

I immediately thought about that servile, pathetic McSame hug with Shrub. And by the time it's over, I hope everyone will.

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 06:46:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

1-If he wants to unite the country, he first must unite the Democratic Party.

He'd better do it quickly and he'd better do it thoroughly or else we will see another 4 years of war.

2-He was reading that speech because, like a good salesman, he was using memes that he and his advisors thought would help him to win the election.

Yo, Barack. remember...
NEVER use the word McCain without using the word Bush.
ALWAYS mention JFK and Reagan in the same breath.
ALWAYS compliment Israel when the subject of the Middle East arises or your money will dry up. Keep saying it...we are Israel's greatest ally, and they are ours, and we will NEVER stop protecting its 5 million Jews from the several billion Muslims who are pissed off at their approach to the so-called Palestinian problem. Also...always link the word "terrorist" with any Islamic organization.
And above all, remember that Osama bin Laden is the enemy. Muslims are the enemy. And DO NOT MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT THE OIL!!!!
Good luck. B.
Now go out there now and SELL!!!
Go get 'em.

He says something about how if Iran essentially surrenders to the desires of the U.S., it can rejoin "the community of nations".

Hmmmm...when will the U.S. be able to do so?

All the King's horse and all the King's men couldn't put THAT Humpty Dumpty together again.

And what exactly has Iran done to be isolated from said community of nations?

Killed 100,000 Iraqis in a Blood For Oil-based terrorist war?

Hmmmmmm...who is that speechwriter again?

Peggy Noonan?

Please.

A failed speech.

Sorry.

A good 1st minute followed by 8 minutes of boilerplate Dem bullshit. And if you analyze his stumbles during that speech, they are all around selling memes that I believe are not his.

He's actually NOT a very good salesman when he is not selling the only thing in which he truly believes.

Himself.

Obama as product.

Now...on the evidence he is a very GOOD product.

He's cute; his own personal social and racial demographics point towards a winning majority if only he can get the Reagan Dem/blue collar white vote back from the RatPubs...but he'd damned well better stop mouthing DNC platitudes and take his only real product to the nation with more fire and less smoke than was present in that speech or Old Son Of Cain is going to whup his young ass.

One thing McCain has going for him is personality.

Fire.

This election will not be won on political platitudes. It will be won on FIRE!!!

Blah blah blah ain't gonna cut it.

Sorry.

VAYA, motherfucker!!!

ENUF a'that shit!!!

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:09:58 PM EST

Arthur Gilroy, You are so thick. Iran can do no good, only he US can. I know you know that and refuse to let us know you know. Even Mr. G.W. Bush knows: we are involved in a battle of good against evil: I am good, you are evil. Oh man, we're moving in deepest, darkest layers of mudflats.

by Quentin on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:21:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yup. (none / 0)

Mudflat, U.S.A.

Zip Code?

00666.

Bet on it.

Another election based on Liar vs. Liar.

Oh BOY!!!

Just what I was waiting for!!!

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:30:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A good speech. Given his words on Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas, I would have hoped that he could have more differences of opinion with the Israel Lobby than "you don't have to be pre-Likud to be pro-Israel" and "negotiation with Iran is a viable option." But then, he's had enough troubles with the persistent "secret Muslim" smear campaign as it is.

At this point in the election and fundraising cycles, his rhetoric is less about inspiring large donors than about swaying swing voters.

by RustyPipes (rustdotypipesatyahoodotcom) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 05:42:25 PM EST

Frankly, compared to the entire rest of the choices on the US political spectrum, "negotiation with Iran is a viable option" is practically so far left it's off the map. I mean, his chief competitor for the Democratic nomination was frothing at the mouth over the opportunity to "obliterate" Iran, and his opponent for the general is committed to 1000 years of war.

Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?

by Egarwaen on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 06:06:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's one of those Overton Window things.

by RustyPipes (rustdotypipesatyahoodotcom) on Sat May 17th, 2008 at 12:46:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]